Hi. I'm Ernesto Servini. I'm a Canadian drummer composer from Toronto, Ontario. Growing up, I was exposed to all kinds of music, from jazz to pop, classical to music theater. My influences were super varied.

Music was all around us, and my mom, my sisters, and I used to sing together on every car ride. My next guest was on regular rotation. We had the cassette tape, the yellow tape, by the Barenaked Ladies, and I can still sing every lyric from that EP. In fact, we proved it while we were singing along in Vancouver when the band was inducted into the Canadian Music Hall of Fame in 02/2018. Please welcome my guest, Jim Cregan.

Thank you, Ernesto.

Thank you so much for doing this. It's such a pleasure. When did the yellow tape come out? Was that, like, in the mid nineties, late eighties?

We recorded that initially to get gigs in Toronto or just to sort of give the club owners and say, hey. This is us. So it was five songs and the same five songs on both sides because you could Yeah. Just get a duplicate

Oh, yeah.

In the in the reproduction process. And so that would have been probably recorded in it's my year university, half of so, like, 09/1990. And then and then I knew it really had gone far when, number one, Sam the record man was asking us to stock the shelves, and Steve's dad, Vic, kind of mortgaged his house and started to, you know, do like, stock shelves, and there was this demand starting to happen. It was kind of an exciting time for independent music because all of a sudden, there was enough demand for for us, and then that sort of also tip people people off to other Toronto bands and other Canadian independent bands. So then there was a Canadian music section in Sam the Record Man and then which started becoming, you know, spot in HMB, and it was like a tape section.

So you can get the tapes of all these independent Canadian bands that literally record them you know, we recorded the yellow tape from 12AM to 9AM in the morning because that's the cheap the cheap recording

Of course it is. Yeah.

You know, studio rates. So but every band could record their own stuff and go down to this tape duplication place. I remember on King Street, and then just and then they could just walk them into the record store. And that was had never really happened before, so it's very interesting.

Well, I wanted to talk about basically your, growing up in Canada and how you discovered music and your love for music and, you know, where you were inspired and basically everything that took you up to, you know, like the time I saw you play at Massey Hall. Right. Everyone was throwing macaroni and cheese at you and

Yes.

And I'm

like, what? How did I get here? Why do I have wet macaroni in my face? What is I bet. And so I I probably at that moment, I I retraced my steps and went, there must be some reason why I'm getting thrown macaroni and cheese at me.

Yes. So

We can re retrace those steps right now.

Yeah. Let's do it. We relive the trauma. And so, really, I had my family my mom was a piano teacher, and so I grew up with her teaching piano to all the neighborhood kids. So I had music, live music, in my head all the time.

Most of my music was not necessarily recorded, which sometimes is a impediment for me because people like their parents listened to radio that had lots of songs. Like, Ed listened to country music because his his family listened to the country music. Tyler knew all these pop hits, you know, because his mom listened to AM radio. I was my parents listened to talk radio, but I always had, like, Bach playing, Chopin playing from the neighborhood kids. So not perfectly, but I I have a feel for live music and also going to church.

I would be singing vowel sounds, keeping up with whatever melody and trying harmonies every Sunday. And then, that's helped me later in life because I I still have this ability to be a a millisecond behind people when and and sing harmonies to them. I don't know. But then the the one of the biggest things was we had a great music program at our public school, and that was this great movement. It was Don Coakley and Ernie Meade, these musicians who got all these great professional musicians into the schools.

And they would go and they would teach, like, five schools in one day. They would just go around and teach one class of strings, band, or a choir. And that became this whole great thing in Scarborough where at the end of school, all the music students from these programs would get to go to camp. And that is where I met Steve, and that's where my brother Andy met Ed, and that's how Ed met you know, Ed and Steve knew each other, but that's where kinda all this music started really happening. The concentration.

It's called Scarborough Music Camp. And so that sort of that's where kind of the alchemy really came together. And, you know, we'd have concerts every night. There was dances, but the music from England, you know, in my school, you know, it was mostly like Stairway to Heaven and stuff like that. But at music camp, the dances we'd have almost every night would be like Depeche Mode, would be Joy Division, would be Orchestral Maneuvers in the Dark.

So all this music from a different kind of more artsy kind of thing happened. And so and so that was huge. And then we had a a symphony. So Scarborough Symphony, school symphony. So I'd play there every week and get to play with really great conductors really and play the firebird suite.

Like Yeah. Really get into Stravinsky and having it not not only listening to it, but interacting, playing with it, practicing it, breaking it down, looking at it in different ways, listening to the violins, practice their part. It was like it's very, you know, intimate connection, and that was all through the schools. And yeah. And so then I think personally, I had a great high school as well that the music teacher Kathy Fraser, we had, like she supported these variety shows.

Mhmm. So my brother and I, who was in Verniqui Ladies at for the five years, we would be the pit band for these variety shows. So that we had to rise to the challenge. So one person wanted to sing Whitney Houston. One person wanted to do a a modern dance piece from scratch, so we had to compose.

There was you know, we we got to play our own stuff, so we explored weather report. We got to explore Call Me Out, like like the Graceland was happening at that time. So we got to check out, like, African rhythms, like, you know, Central African, West African. And it was like it was a really the performances that came up and the opportunities really we we rose to those challenges, and that served us. It kinda made us live the music really.

So that became all these tools that we used in Barenaked Ladies.

Yeah. Man, that's great. So I have a couple questions. Let's I wanna go back to your family for a and growing up, you know, growing up with your your brother Andy, do you have any other siblings?

My older brother John. He was did the, you know, if you know the Blues Brothers, he did the the intro to that intro to the the Blues Brothers album. Anyways, he was very supportive. He was he was ahead of us and he started playing he played, like, bass before me, and he he was kind of the he plowed away, but he was kind of more excelled in, like, sports and things like that. Yeah.

And my dad, he he played he played by ear, where my mom studied piano at a Katy University. My dad was and she studied music history as well. My dad, he learned, like, I love coffee, I love tea, I think, once.

Javajive. I

know Javajive. He he learned that once, and he learned it by ear in f sharp or g flat, whatever you wanna call it. Yeah. So now everything he plays is in those keys. So key.

And he just played for himself often when we were late for going somewhere. Drive drive my mom crazy. But so and the other thing is that there was music my mom and dad brought music into the house because they had a community choir called the West Hills Singers in Scarborough. Yeah. And and so though it would drive me crazy, every Wednesday night, they had a choir practice and mostly socializing, you know, and they kept me up at night.

But I it would again, it was in person singing. Like, was people. It it was live music. And I was just so fortunate to be surrounded by this live music in many different settings. Yeah.

It's really, I think, served me well, and I I try and do that myself now. I'm trying little things I'm trying to recreate. Like, we have the we call it a choir practice birthday party. So just invite all your friends and sing. You know?

That's amazing. We we did that I I so you met my sister, Amy Cervini.

Yeah. Oh, that's her sister. Okay.

Yeah. That's my sister.

Okay. Okay.

So Cervini. So yeah. Amy is my older sister, and so I grew up you know, she's a musician as well, and and so I kinda grew up following what she was doing. And it was a big part of the the reason I'm a musician is because of my two older sisters who were also studying music.

There you go.

But Amy we were I was with Amy on the way to a gig recently and well, it wasn't recently. It was a number of years ago now. But we ended up getting all these barbershop tags that we printed out and then just sight singing barbershop tags. It was so much fun.

Yeah. My brother and I still still play. We do the odd gig here and there, and he's really composing. He left the band to to explore composition and orchestration, and now that's he's continuing to do that. So whenever we play now that our music that we do together has morphed.

So I do a little bit of scoring too with strings and things.

That's awesome. You started playing bass when you were at the end of elementary school or beginning of high school?

In grade five.

Grade five?

At the itinerant music program in Scarborough.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I That's great. So it's very early, and I I actually started in grade four. And I remember the day that they were testing people, like, you know, to see if you could make it into the program. Yeah.

And I remember the teacher goes, okay. I'm gonna play one note, and then I'm gonna play a note after that. And you tell me if that note is higher or lower so I couldn't see, you know, when they were playing it. And I made a guess. Like, I had no idea.

And I maybe I guessed right, and I got in because my my brother was a bass player ahead of me, so I got to and I was fairly tall so I could work with this. I could choose a bass. And Yeah. To me, that was amazing because I felt very special because I could carry it home and it was, like, prove my strengths. You

know? Yeah.

I But it was, like, it was, like, I was for a while, I thought I was the only bass player in the world because I didn't know anybody else who did this.

Well, I don't think there's a lot of kids in grade five that play bass. I mean, I couldn't have carried one when

I was in grade five. Well, that's

that's why I I sort of supported the the local school with their ukulele program with Melody Dome's Yeah. Ukulele program, and we got a bass in there. And now that's a couple kids accompanying the ukulele program. It's so, yeah, we gotta we gotta keep those plant those bass seeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

And we also had a acapella quartet that performed and at the school, at lunchtime, and that was a really fun thing. That came out of the variety shows.

Yeah.

And we actually won rising the rising star youth Performance Award at the CNE.

I remember that competition.

Oh, yeah.

That competition as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely.

1987 was our year.

Nice. That's amazing. What song what was your big hit? Which song did you do

to write? We covered the nylons. We called ourselves the synthetics. Nice. So the synthetics and we we had moves, know.

I was like, I was the bass guy, so You know?

Yeah. We drove my hollow past your house late last night, all the You know. Yes. Yes. To silhouettes on the shade I couldn't hide.

There's tears in my eyes. Those competitions were in I remember being super nervous at those.

Oh, yeah. I was you're being judged, you know. And we competed against Alanis Morissette in the the national competition. She came down from Ottawa.

And That's amazing.

I like to think we inspired her to continue her career and to someday beat us.

Just that's all it has been since then. She's just trying to finally

Just trying to beat synthetics

in a

goddamn competition.

Oh, I love that. That's great. It's it's funny how what a small, you know, community this is where, you you know, you meet these people that you start making music with when you're, whatever, a teenager, and then, you know, all of sudden you're in your your forties and your fifties, and they're still around, and you're still making music with them. And it's like Yeah.

I I think it really is a small world. And I think sometimes at the beginning, people forget, you know, they they they don't know it's a small world yet. And

Right.

You end up, you know, you see that person you'll see that person at a radio station maybe in Vancouver but you might see them in a radio station that's in six months in in Toronto And and especially in Canada, it's it's it seems big at the beginning, but really it's and even in The US in the industry, like, it's it's yeah. It's it's good to treat people like you, you know, with respect because you're gonna see them again and Yep.

Absolutely. You know, it's

it's yeah. That was that was pretty clear early on after we Yeah. Toured the the country a few times and it's a small world, small community.

Yeah. I I teach at the University of Toronto and I always remind my students like, you're my students now, but we're gonna be peers in five years.

Oh, absolutely.

You know? And we'll be sharing the stage very soon. Yeah. Just just be cool. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Know? And I'll be cool and everything will be cool.

Yeah. Let's let's the tree will be, you know, just be be be real. And it's because you are it's hard to acknowledge your that I think at the beginning that it's your community. Hard to understand you're actually walking into a new group of people that, you know, it's what's the most important thing is support and

Yeah. Yeah. Think as a young person, it's it's hard to grasp that because you're coming out of this world where, you know, especially when you're going into university or something where you're coming from, you know, your family is your community. And then you have the group of friends, but at the end of the day, you all go home to your family. And then you enter this this new community that that frankly becomes, you know, your family.

It's your chosen family as opposed to the one that you are born with. Yeah. And but I it takes I think it takes a long time to be able to see beyond yourself and to realize you you know what I mean? Like Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. Mhmm. And and I think with with the band, didn't even know that I'd be spending more than half my life now with those guys. Yeah.

And, you know, it's it's, you know, it's it's I'm really proud of that though, you know, that we've gone through so many changes together and kept going and kept it positive, kept supporting each other.

Yeah. If you had advice that you could give to a young musician, like, growing up in Canada right now, since we're talking about that that transition, do you have any advice you'd give to either a young you or just a young, you know, someone who's in their late teens, early twenties.

You know, my advice to a younger person is find find the people that you resonate with and and ask questions, and don't be afraid to admit you don't know something. That that's my younger self that I'd be talking to.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

My my younger self as well. Yeah. But that's you know, a lot

lot of people, I think, also with with, you know, having a career, I feel very fortunate to have a career in music. I would say a similar thing is that find the people that you resonate with, find find the artists that you connect with because that's telling you something. When when you just feel something when somebody plays something, they'd say their original song. Really, really note that that that's special and follow-up on it and talk to them, see what's going on. And and because I think socially, I think it's an important aspect of, you know, moving into a career.

There's certainly, yes, individual practicing. Sure. But a big component is following and putting yourself alongside a community of musicians that inspire you.

Yes. Yeah.

I think that's the biggest thing because I I feel like I was fortunate that I did find some people that I that kinda blew my mind, really, and I was so fortunate to be with them. We carried forward. And their strengths, you know, helped move the the band forward in some ways, and my strengths helped to move the band forward in other ways. You know? Yeah.

Harmonically, musically, I'd had a little more experience than the other guys. But songwriting wise, those guys, you know, they really were had were were pulling me along. And so now I'm like I I feel like I'm really just starting to really feel like, yes, I can stand by that song I just wrote. You know? I mean, I there I'm not proud of all the songs along the way, but I feel like, you know, if you can collectives are often I feel like there's this feeling like you gotta make it yourself or, you know, you it's all about you in but I think there's a little more attention to how you engage with other people.

I think it's a big thing. Yeah. And support other and accept support. It's like

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about because you you mentioned before that that you kinda met the guys at that Scarborough Music Camp. Did you do a lot of music camps growing up or did you do any other music camp?

Every year. Oh, no. I mean, that one was the only one I ever did. But it was like there was a two two sessions at the end of the year, one each one a week long, and I did both. Yeah.

So and we were all mentors there, and we were, you know, we got to be take be a a mentor in a cabin for younger kids and Yeah. Learn some leadership skills. And it was it was an amazing thing. I got to I got to play with the teacher band. We remember playing the chicken.

You know? Yeah.

Electric?

Yeah. Played it on electric bass.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Because they knew I played it. Yeah. So they knew I played it. And then it was like, I got to play with these, like, heavy players.

Like Yeah. They were really awesome players. I wanna see if somebody could pull up some of the names. Chris. I'm mixing it up with another friend of mine, Chris.

Anyways, Chris and Trimbonus was with me.

I don't know.

I just remember all these guys. They're just amazing.

Of course. Yeah. Yep. That's that's great. And so then you ended up going to U of T.

So were you Yeah. At U of T for classical? Or

Yes. I was at U of T and for classic, you know, double bass performance. Basically, the the program is designed to really give you the skills to have a professional career as a symphonic bass player primarily. Absolutely. And so that's where I was going, and I studied under Thomas Monahan.

Uh-huh. And that was really great two years where I got to and I still keep in touch with the friends that I made and collaborate with from that time, like Mark Fuhr, a violinist.

We Yeah. Yeah. I know Mark.

Yeah. We just he played on some Barenaked Lady records and just the most recent one. He played with me and my brother. Rob Carley, another guy that I really connected with there and continue to collaborate with. And he's, you know, is he's one of the most prolific composers right now and and arrangers in in Canada.

And, you know, I'd just know him as should've heard some of the silly songs we made in in university. And I would say that if I had to talk to someone who's in that situation, again, like, as in my younger self in university, the most important thing that I feel I did was I collaborated with a student composer. She came to me looking for a a double bass player to play with a a duet with a cello, and she had a piece. And so we did it. We interpreted it.

It was a contemporary piece. And that whole process is what I continue to do in just different all different kind of styles of music. And I feel like that was just one thing. It wasn't in the curriculum. It was just sort of a side thing.

But it was being in that environment and being able to have a chance to work and collaborate was was amazing. The symphonies, we played Stravinsky's Symphony Symphony of Psalms, Psalm 29, full choir, almost like double orchestra. Like, it was phenomenal. And I I feel like in some ways, the sensibilities that I was exposed to and experienced is something that it's like I've always tried to find that Indian in the smallest pop setup or with the band. Like, it's almost like you find, like, wine people.

Like, they really know really good wine. Because they've been exposed to it and they understand it, they researched it. And so same with music, I feel if you're exposed to it and you can connect with it, then it gives you like something on the shelf that like you're always trying to like, oh, wait a minute. What was that? What was that feeling?

It's like a feeling you're going for. Like, it can be deeper. It we can go for beauty in every moment. So I feel like musically that was a huge thing that I put in my backpack, being exposed to the symphony. And now I I go back and I just go to the symphony and like means even more, you know.

It's it's so great because you're talking about all these like really special. I mean, it all comes back to community. Right? These amazing teachers and these amazing people that you met, you know, that you're still making music with and and I think it's it's such a I mean, I think that's why what we what we do is so special. Why why being being able to create music and make music with people is such a I I, you know, I always feel so fortunate that I'm able to do You know?

It's like

I feel so too. And I feel like the more I look around, the more I I see that it's the music is is in a way it's a really heightened or immersive experience with working with people, unless you're a soloist, you know, played by yourself. But the I feel like that situation can inform other situations where you're working with people. So I feel like in I got unfortunate you and I are fortunate to do it as a as a living, but to join a community choir and just get that feeling of singing with people. And also and then you can bring that to your job or bring that to your family and just like you know, that you can find this way of engaging with people in an intimate way with music and then Right.

Allow that to inform the rest of your life. Yeah. But I think that I'm really all for kinda what my parents introduced, which was singing for community, singing for life, playing music for life for yourself, you know, with the others by yourselves. Like, my son now, you know, he plays guitar as stress relief. You know?

He's he he he never really grabbed on to, like, you know, music lessons and all that, you know, like, what I was into, like, really going for it. But he has very talented and he he found a space where it's in between studying for heavy exams in university, reaches for the guitar, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And it's it gives them a break.

So speaking of of other bands, like, what were the most what was what were your favorite bands growing up? And and especially if if you had any favorite Canadian bands growing up.

I would say that oh, it's very simple because we didn't have as much music. We had Sure. Maybe a record and limited choice. So it was my bands that I was into was April one. Mhmm.

I had that one record, Enter the Beast, I think it was called. But, you know,

Say hello. Say hello out now.

Compositionally awesome pop Yeah. Rock music. And, of course, Rush was alongside of that was, you know, I was a huge Geddy Lee fan and, you know, air based. My brothers would we we were three of three brothers and our you know, so we each one guy with Andy was Neil Peart and John was Alex Leifson. I was Geddy Lee.

Yeah. And so I guess from from Rush, I continued on to well, I mentioned the nylons. Right?

Yeah.

So I was really into the nylons and and acapella music. You know, I was into Huey Lewis. And then in high school, I got into really into a lot of, like, rockabilly and, well, swing music, like, American Graffiti swing swing music and got you know, went to go see the four lads and but yeah. Like, Paul Anka, you know, this real swing music. And then and then from there, yeah, it was like Paul Simon and Blacksmith Laiden Leeswicke Black Mambazo.

My band covered all that stuff. And so yeah. Like no. It's the Downchild Blues band.

Yeah.

Doing it right on the wrong side of town. Anyways, sling music. You know? And and and so that's that's kinda, like, really the beginning. And then I then I started exploring jazz and was until, like, Phil Nimmin's and Mo Kaufman went to see him at the Spaghetti House.

And then one night, we went and let the spaghetti I it wasn't the spaghetti fact what was it? It was like a deli. Georgia's Spaghetti House.

Georgia's Spaghetti House. Yeah. And then they had a

deli in Yorkville, and I remember when I saw we went, let's go to it's cold. Watch jazz till 3AM in the morning. Okay. Yeah. And I remember seeing these players just jamming, and I just was like, I wanna do that.

And Jim Jim Vivian was a huge hero of mine. I just loved his playing very melodic and groovy. And then he and then let's talk about the shuffle demons.

Oh, yes.

Oh my god. Oh, yes. So the shuffle demons, man. And and just so funny, it's full circle, is I played with Richard Underhill yesterday at the farmer's market, and we've met at we love shopping at farmer's markets, and we met, and he let me play with him. But

That's awesome.

Jim Vivian, you know, Richard Underhill, Mike Murley, those guys, Perry White, you know, they they were a window and a doorway, a portal into a music again that really just blew my mind because it it they took the harmony and they just blew the ceiling off of it. And so atonal music and energy and free playing started became into my world. Right. And I later, you know, explored that with Bob Wiseman when he opened for us on the Barenaked Lady tour. We'd sit in and play.

We'd we were doing all the all the theaters. So sometimes three days in a row in a theater, Halifax or, you know, Brunswick, Saint John's, Moncton, and they'd have a piano, and we just ask if we could play. And we just played for hours just free playing. Yeah. So and that sort of was tipped off by the shuffle demons.

And then I met Bob who was really exploring Keith Jarrett in open play. And and so that to me was, you know, talk about influence and just really, like, again, hearing it's getting back to that point of, like, hearing something that resonates with you or maybe just makes you curious and then following that and asking some questions.

I think that's the most important part, right? When your interest is peaked, go. Like, go with it. Follow it. Don't forget about that feeling.

So even if you even if you can't, you know, follow something right away, just keeping that in mind. I mean, like, This is that's something I'm really interested in. I'm gonna remember to, like, you know, pursue that whenever I can and

It means something. And sometimes it's just a very small feeling and it could be fleeting, but if you can just remember, oh, wait a minute. There's something happened there.

It's so it's so awesome for me to hear you mentioning these guys who are also my heroes and people like I remember going

to see

the shuffle demons at night when they had that remember those New Year's Eve festivals they had in Toronto?

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And and so I you know, the the demons were, like, leading the parade doing Spadina bus, and I was I was, whatever, nine years old. I was like, oh my god. I love them. They're so great. And it was opening my mind to Yes.

To jazz

So awesome.

How fun music can be and just this this sense of community. I was like, oh my god. They're writing songs about Toronto. And then, you know, and then I'm discovering the Barenaked Ladies. My god.

They're writing songs about This is like understand this. I I yeah.

It's just such an amazing facts.

Yeah. Such such an amazing feeling.

Another guy another guy, just we just had one is George Collar. Yeah. George Collar. He he he, you know, he played with the shuffle demons as well. And he, you know, he said, hey, man.

Let's get together. You know? And we did we did the same thing. We went got two bases together, and we just played

Yeah.

Free for Yeah. Hours and hours. And and we did did it once, but wow. What a nice person to kind of like take a young guy and go, hey, man. Let's just play.

You know? And it was happened once, but it it was like pivotal.

I wanted to bring this now to just talk about the song that that I fell in love with by the Barenaked Ladies, which is When I Fall.

I love that too. I love that one.

So I I now I fell in love with it off of the live album, off of Rock Spectacle. I don't know why specifically that version over the album. I think it's just that's the one that ended up on my playlist that I I've been listening to for the last twenty five years. So Yeah. You know?

Well, it's well, what's cool about it what's cool about it being on the live record is you're really getting, you know, the bare bones of of the band playing. And I and, really, they're actually, the original is not that off the the studio version is not that different. Similar. But I think that song really can it's it can really just stand on its own with really simple parts. And I I as a bass player, you know, this is the album that my brother was not in the band.

So I really felt a lot of I felt like I needed to kinda step up melodically as a musician, but I was, you know, the bass player.

Yeah.

And then as the song is very circular song, so the the the chords kind of are in this revolving circle, and it gave me a chance to kind of change the foundation of it as it went to to develop to to to progress the song. And it became it it really I'm really proud of how that it sort of opens up, sort of blossoms as the song goes on, as the guy is singing about being a window washer and just completely scared of falling, but wondering what would be like Yeah. To fall. Like, he was exploring these this reality and and then reflecting on his life about death and the deaths of his grandfather. What would you know, what does that mean?

How does that affect his how does that weigh against his life right now? And it's almost like this contemplation of, you know, falling and losing control, losing control of your life. And this and but in the same time, sort of being grateful for it at the same time. That's what I take from the song anyways. And so yeah.

Very I I mean, I actually could tell you where I got I realized that that's how to progress something was when I was in U of T. Is this okay if I like, I'm just drawing connections. I was in a I don't know. It's kind of in a hack around sort of jazz combo, but the it was the year before the U of T had a jazz program. So they were audition auditioning deans for to lead the program.

And so they got they turned a little audition. They used my band as the audition band, and they had a it was like a master class with a potential dean. And his name was Dean, but I forget his last name. But anyways, he he he told me like, hey. When you're playing, you know, if you wanna create a little more intensity, you know, just what can you do?

Maybe a more little more rhythmic intensity, little more action, little activity, You know? Or you could also do that by going up and register. Maybe that maybe that can create, like, that that movement going up is something you can you as a bass player can do to move this piece forward. And I used it right in that song. I used it in arranging Eid.

Like, we arranged if you listen to that, all that is about this. More rhythmic intensity and more and going up at pitch, like and adding more harmony. You know? It's and so it's like, it's amazing these little moments of that you grab and then how it plays out later in, you know, in the action.

So so when someone brought in a tune, so someone brings in a tune to the band, like, because you are a collective, is it the kind of thing where someone brings in a tune and then it's just it becomes the band's baby and everyone kind of gives their or is it more like composer?

Does it become the band's

baby by the You

don't know. And that's the kind of the insecurity of bringing it to the band is that you what makes it a band is that everybody has to be stand by a song that's on that record. Like, they have to find themselves in it. And sometimes that song's not gonna make it. You might might be your favorite song and might might not make it.

But everybody's usually just the process is about caring about that song and and finding ways to bring it out and make it shine. And so I think that's something it's that the band's already been always been really good at is going in and digging in and finding a way. You know? There's a story that Tom Petty I heard him on a podcast or something or some interview where he was talking about bringing a song to the band, and the heartbreakers would get in their in their workshop and ask, why don't we do this? Maybe we cut that, you know, cut a couple bars off that, you know, change the key.

And he just said, like, does anybody think this is a good song? You know, it's Tom Fetti. Right? Is that like, does anybody think this is good? Like, because they didn't go, oh, man.

I love this song.

They're like, working there right away. Like, how can we what can we do? How can we mold this?

Yeah. How can we bring this out? Yeah. And so with when I fall, it was I loved the song already. Like, it was a very like, it was something that Steve and Ed really have like, I could tell.

Like, it was it was just they put something more into this one, and and I really wanted to honor that.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I actually, I you know, you sent me the song. You guys did. I really I really love what you did because you you found a a the cyclical chord progression and and sort of allowed that to to keep keep revolving, And and it it was very trance y. I love that you did that because, yeah, I I love that aspect of it too. Like, I find in as a especially as a bass player rhythm section, one of my biggest jobs is to create a feeling or a state of trance in the music so that so that the melody can kind of be this sort of stream of consciousness, this sort of stream of of leading a body that is in motion.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I ended up putting putting the melody in the bass, not you know, just because I don't know. Kinda felt like one of those where it was like, it's such a beautiful I don't know.

It's such a beautiful melody and the horns always get the melody, but no. Why not just get get let the bass play the melody and just have the horns kind of like play pads in the background and let let the let the bass really sing. You know, the bass is such a beautiful instrument.

It's a it's a very it's a basic instrument. So it's the simplest almost. So when the melody goes in it, it's very humble. Right. It's a humble instrument to to represent the melody, I find.

And that's another thing is that you're you're instrumental band. You know? How do you that's a whole other challenge because you get one big part of the song that's now not being represented. So how do you continue how do you continue that? Like, find the the emotional I find that's a big challenge is to find instrumentally nuances emotionally.

Right.

Yeah. Absolutely. I think, I mean, that that is always the challenge is is trying to to because I you know, obviously with this song, I have a huge emotional connection to it just from, you know, having listened to it for my whole life, basically, and just ever since it came out. And so it's trying to get that that love of this music and the the respect for it across. I think, you know, basically, I I'm always trying to just present things as I don't know.

I mean, as I think honoring the parts that I really find beautiful, you know, and making sure that like in this song,

it's Right.

Like that melody is is is beautiful and the way it the way it sits on the changes is is really beautiful. And so I thought, okay. Well, I'm gonna write Mhmm. They try and highlight this melody by making like, piano is not even in. The piano I think on the track, he doesn't the piano doesn't come in until the bridge.

But the song starts with a trombone solo just over bass. And and so it's just like, it starts super mellow, then and then the changes don't really come in, or at least they're not filled out for, like, two or three minutes. It's just like, you know, trying to keep it nice and sparse. Yeah. And just And and and we kinda made it you know, get a little gospel feel and

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what? I yeah. I could see that.

I mean, he's talking he's talking about, you know, these soul searching. Yeah. You know? I could see that. Boldly.

Well, I I just wanna thank you so much for, you know, in well, inspiring me and inspiring a whole generation of musicians, you know, over I you know, because and especially the fact that, you know, as a as a young music nerd myself, having a band that I could that I, like, totally you know, my favorite bands in grade eight were the Barenaked Ladies and Guns N' Roses. And you couldn't be more different than the Barenaked Ladies and Guns N' Roses, but I was Yeah. So passionate about both. You know? And Yeah.

Oh, love patience. I love patience.

So great.

Love when I came in.

So great. So thank and thank you for coming on today and and chatting with me about, you know.

Oh, it's my pleasure. I will I yeah. I would love to keep the conversation going. I think the more I wouldn't even you know, just hearing how your your attachment to the song, I mean, that really makes it, you know, something that recorded in 1993 or '94. And hearing you bring it, you know, and ex exploring your connection to it, it's like Yeah.

It keeps it alive. It keeps, again, those small feelings, like, sometimes we forget. Like, I know? And then you bring it back, and I'm thinking about the the room, you know, where we recorded the and the feeling and the of working with the people there, Michael Phillip, Voivoda. I'm just I'm going back there.

And and I'll just hearing the way, you know, you're talking about it and just the context of how you were listening to it with your family and, you know, the high school, you know, and yeah. It's it's great. I I love I love I think it's all part

of it. Community and and, you know, supporting each other and and lifting each other Yeah. And inspiring each other. I mean, that's the name of the game. Right?

That's that's Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I'm playing at the Farmer's market, Trinity Bellwoods, Tuesday. Bring your bring your There you go. Drumsticks.

Yeah. Well, that's yeah.

There you go. That sounds amazing.

Actually, I was I'm not running the show. It's not my gig. It's Richard Underhill.

So send a text to Rich. Be like, hey, man. Who's playing? Who's drumming? What do you what Yeah.

Who's playing, man? Exactly. Great. Well, thank you so much. And and hopefully, you know, obviously, it'd be it'd be a blast to make music together at some point for sure.

But but Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for doing this and thanks for everything and we'll chat again sometime soon, hope.

Nice chatting, Ernesto. Take care. Alright.

Great. Yeah. That was beautiful. Yeah. It was a good take.